Episode 3: Laya​​

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[Beth 00.00.01]: As a heads up, topics discussed in this episode include violence and genocide. If you're not in the headspace for that right now, I would skip this episode. 

 

[00.00.13]: Hello everyone. You're listening to the queer oral history podcast based in Washington, DC. Welcome to Rainbow District. 

 

[Upbeat jazzy piano with electric guitar]

 

[Music gets quieter]

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[00.00.39]: Today's activist is Laya Monarez. For over a decade, Laya has been advocating for queer rights and the decriminalization of sex work. She is also an incredible artist, skilled in the mediums of oil painting, acrylic painting, stone carving, wielding, drawing, ceramics, and mixed media. She has several murals in the DC area, many of which were commissioned by the Latin American Youth Center. 

 

[00.01.08]: For my interview with Laya, I met her at her place of work, the DC LGBTQ+ Community Center on 14th and U. It was right after it closed for the day, so we basically had the whole place to ourselves. The Center is a welcoming space with tons of resources, and I highly recommend checking it out. Laya asked if I wanted to sit at a table in what looked like a small conference room, or an area that was more like a living room. I chose the latter because I love a comfy chair. I had a lovely time talking to Leah and I hope you enjoy it as well. 

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[Beth 00.01.45]: January 31st, 2024. Hello!

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[Laya 00.01.48]: Hi, how are you?

 

[Beth 00.01.50]: Thank you so much for joining me tonight. So to start out, would you like to introduce yourself?

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[Laya 00.01.54]: Yeah, sure. So my name is Laya Monarez. I'm 40 years old. I'm a Latina, bi, queer, trans person. I'm a trans woman. She/her/hers. What else? I’m Indigenous. I identify with the Tepehuán and Tarahumara tribes.

That's where my ancestry is. I probably have some Spaniard in me too. So we are Mestizo. Yeah. I work right now for the DC Center for the LGBTQ Community. And I have been an advocate for LGBTQ rights, trans rights, and particularly sex worker rights for, man, maybe, probably 15 plus years. And other minor things, I play roller derby and I spin fire nunchucks, and I make some music, and I'm also a professional artist.

 

[Beth 00.02.52]: Yes. And your art is incredible. As we know I am a huge fan. So, what was your community  growing up? Just kind of generally.

 

[Laya 00.03.00]: Yeah, sure. Generally, I grew up in a kind of small town. It was called Herndon, Virginia, and at the time when I was a kid, it was kind of farms. And there was definitely some suburban stuff too, but it was very farm-like also. But over the course of time, more people showed up as Northern Virginia became more people, just populated, I suppose, it developed and became less of a farm and more just kind of a suburb. And, but it's still there's still remnants of  it that still had Civil War Old Town stuff in it. So, yeah, it just felt very old towny, but I wouldn't say it was– I didn't grow up in the country from a small town. Like that song, I think there's a small town song or something.  

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[Beth 00.03.43]: Probably.

 

[Laya 00.03.44]: I think some people might know what I'm talking about. I didn't come from that small town, but I came from a small town. But yeah, it wasn't always the most queer friendly. And plus, most of my childhood was in the 80s and 90s, and I think queer culture was very, very taboo still. 

 

[Beth 00.04.01]: So, do you remember when you started to first question your sexuality or your gender identity or both?

 

[Laya 00.04.08]: Yeah, so I am bisexual and I'm also a trans woman. I think when I was younger, though, probably all the way up to my mid 20s, I probably identified more as being nonbinary than I did as a trans woman, and I think I was still kind of figuring it out. I just didn't have language. And back then, we didn't have the words "nonbinary" or "genderqueer". The only thing I really knew was maybe "androgynous," or I knew "glam rock" was a way to describe it. I think the first time I started questioning my sexuality was probably I was, maybe in sixth grade. I think I definitely initially was attracted to girls, which is, since I had a boy childhood, was the normal expectation.

 

[00.05.05]: But I think that I started thinking about the relationships I was having with other boys that were around me, and I started thinking about other things, other ways that I imagined romance could look like for me. And I started thinking that I might be attracted to boys and men as well. And I think that slowly developed and kind of morphed and changed as I got older. I think by that time I was in high school, I was solidly, pretty secure in the fact that I was bisexual, and I think that gender wasn't a defining factor for what I was attracted to. I was attracted to interesting and sexy people. And that's what was more the factor for me. 

 

[00.05.46]: I think that also it was confusing because although I was very good at performing at being male, I was, I knew that I wasn't fully male and I wasn't really the way other boys were "supposed" to be. I remember they would always want to punch each other and show how manly they were. And I was just like, don't punch me. What are we doing? This is dumb. Can't we just go play with dolls or something? Or I would just want to go paint or just do something that wasn't traditionally boyish. But then I would also just want to go play football. So I was just really kind of confused. 

 

[00.06.25]: And I think by the time I got–that was more in  middle school. By the time I was in high school, I was pretty solidly in the middle. And I felt that maybe I was a trans woman, maybe I wasn't. And I think also, though, there was some element of, I wanted to have a family and I wanted to have kids and so didn't know there was a world where you could be trans and still do that. And I think that that's more common now. But back then, it was kind of, it felt like a death sentence to  having a family if I was going to be trans. I think much, much later I realized that that wasn't really the case. And when I finally did transition in my 27th year, I had kind of come to terms with that and decided that I didn't really care whether I had a family or not anymore. I just wanted to be happy and who I was. Yeah.

 

[00.07.12]: And I think additionally, all of my relationships kept hitting roadblocks because I couldn't figure out my gender and my sexual–well, I had my sexuality figured out, but I couldn't figure out what I was doing fully with my gender sort of situation, and it was just making it difficult constantly and constantly. And I realized that if I wasn't just fully myself, that I could never have a healthy relationship. And so then, so it became not only about me, but being able to just be fully myself to other people. 

 

[Beth 00.07.42]: Yeah, that makes sense. So when you were in high school, did you have the– it sounds like you had the terminology of bisexual and transgender?

 

[Laya 00.07.51]: Yeah. When I was in high school. One, okay. So it's kind of the early years of the internet. And my parents also didn't have a lot of money, so we didn't have the internet at home. So most of my experience was going to the library. I lived at the library. I was there all the time. After school I'd go to the library, and on weekends I would ask my parents to take me to the library, and it was there where sometimes I would check out books and try to learn about myself and try to figure myself out, what's going on with me.

 

Sometimes it was even, I would try to figure out things with depression because I was sad. And I, growing up Christian, I was kind of at war with myself because I was angry of who I was, but at the same time, I just wanted to be myself. Anyway, so I started reading a lot of books about gender and sexuality, anything I could find. And a lot of things about psychology and trying to understand my brain, trying to understand if I was just really different or weird. Eventually I discovered there were a lot of other people like me, but they just weren't as common yet. 

 

[00.08.57]: So, long story short, I didn't have the internet yet. The language was a little more restrictive back then, and I understood bisexual was a common thing. But beyond that, people were still using words like transvestite and transsexual, and it was very clinical, and so I had those words to kind of understand or maybe kind of figure out who I was. Cross-dresser or things  that. But it wasn't really until later, maybe in my 20s, when I think queer language was really starting to change and people were using the word queer. At first, that was even kind of weird for me. It was not something I was completely comfortable with, particularly because the big bully when I was in high school would call me a queer or something like that. So to convert it and then retake it was kind of  a big step for folks in the community.

 

[Beth 00.09.48]: Yeah. And I know a lot of people are still uncomfortable with it just because of how it used to be a slur.

 

[Laya 00.09.54]: Yeah, I'm fine with it now. 

 

[Beth 00.09.57]: Yeah.

 

[Laya 00.09.58]: It doesn't really bother me.  I think that folks over 60, especially in the queer community, are still a little uncomfortable with it. I think it's even deeper within their lexicon of hatred. But I think–or, words that they have heard against the community. I think for me, by the late 90s, it was, things were getting more accepted. It was a little less common to hate LGBTQ people. But it was just not stuff that you talked about all the time yet.

 

[Beth 00.10.29]: So did your community growing up know that you were queer? And if they did, how did they respond?

 

[Laya 00.10.36]: Yeah, I think– I don't think there were a lot of tales when I was really young, although I think by the time I was in, trying to remember, I think third or fourth grade, my mom would catch me dressing as a girl sometimes, wearing my sister’s or her clothes. I think by then my parents had some idea. But as far as my friends and things, nobody really had any suspicion until maybe high school. I think one or two of them maybe saw me. I used to try to see if I can walk around the block dressed as a girl and see if anybody would notice or see what that was like. And I think some of my very masculine friends saw me one time and they kind of confronted me about it. But I said– I just adamantly denied that it happened because I was just terrified of getting beat up or being ostracized from them. 

 

[00.11.22] But I think by the second half of high school, I started doing a lot of theater, and I felt way more comfortable around theater kids because many of them were often queer or were alternative, maybe into heavy metal or raver stuff. And they were just like, they didn't care. And I was like, cool. I think I finally found my people. And it was then where I was way more willing to mention that I was bi to a few friends or to wear makeup to school or wear very tight fitted girl’s pants. And I started really looking a lot more androgynous, started growing out my hair and wearing a lot more jewelry.

 

[Beth 00.12.06]: So what brought you to DC?

 

[Laya 00.12.09]: Yeah, so basically I went to college at the Corcoran College of Art and design. I wanted to become a professional artist. I wanted to learn all about art and become the best artist I could. So, yeah, that's what brought me to DC initially.

 

[Beth 00.12.24]: What is the DC Trans Coalition and what did you do there?

 

[Laya 00.12.28]: What I did there was I sat in some meetings and we made kind of some suggestions on how to do some advocacy in the city. One of the things they were pushing for and that they worked on a lot was how to change the bathrooms so that every single occupancy bathroom would be non-gendered, which is now law in DC. Just little things like that they would try to change to make the city more LGBTQ friendly, particularly trans friendly. 

 

[00.12:57]: And then I at one point was assigned to help train police officers at the police academy on trans sensitivity and kind of understanding the trans experience, using correct pronouns, how to talk to trans people, and kind of just understanding their lives a lot more. Also understanding the law and when they do arrest trans people, what the expectations are and how they're supposed, where they're supposed to place them and talk to them and things they should or shouldn't do. For example, some police officers would throw some trans women's wigs on the floor to embarrass them. And that's highly illegal in the city now. Or, was at the time when I was doing the training, I think still is. So that's kind of the main thing that I was working on. And then little volunteer projects here and there.

 

[Beth 00.13.48]: Do you feel like the police were receptive to what you were saying? 

 

[Laya 00.13.52]: Um, yeah. They were usually young police officers. I could tell a few of them felt very masculine or maybe uncomfortable, but I think most of them asked questions and were genuinely curious. I don't think it was too bad. There were only a few that were not very receptive. 

 

[Beth 00.14.08]: That's good.

 

[Laya 00.14.10]: Mhm. 

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[Beth 00.14.11]: Was this before or after you worked at the Human Rights Campaign?

 

[Laya 00.14.15]: That was before.

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[Beth 00.14.17]: Okay.

 

[Laya 00.14.18]: And then, I think maybe a year or two after that. I had worked a few jobs in between. But eventually I got hired at the Human Rights Campaign where I started–I was actually hired to be a membership outreach coordinator, and I was working with various Pride events. The Human Rights Campaign also had me do videos with them sometimes because I was–trying to remember if this was right– I think I was the first trans woman of color they ever hired. 

 

[Beth 00.14.46]: Wow. 

 

[Laya 00.14.47]: Yeah. So I was used in videos more often than the average person there, but I enjoyed it, and it was really nice to talk about topics that I knew about. I was the chair of the Bi Pan Queer Fluid Employee Resource Group employee resource group there. I did as much as I could to kind of make the place be more POC and trans inclusive.

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[Beth 00.15.09]: At a DC Council hearing in 2019, you testified in support of legislation that would decriminalize sex work. Could you talk about that experience and explain your perspective on that issue and what bill you were advocating for?

 

[Laya 00.15.24]: Yeah. Off the top of my head, unfortunately, I can't remember the exact name of the bill. 

 

[Beth 00.15.29]: That's okay. 

 

[Laya 00.15.31]: But it was slated as a health bill.

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[Beth 00.15.33]: Okay.

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[Laya 00.15.34:] And the idea being that it would increase the health of sex workers and just the community in general. So I had, a few years prior to that, been–a friend of mine from the DC Trans Coalition, she's one of my best friends, she had mentioned to me that she was doing some advocacy for, to decriminalize sex work. She's an attorney. And I have a lot of lived experience of having been a former sex worker during times when I've really, really struggled as a trans person and I have some decent stories. I'm a survivor of violence. I've been stabbed, almost run over, beaten a few times. So anyways, I had some experience related to it. But as a product, I really wanted to advocate to decriminalize sex work, because I feel that it would make sex workers much safer. And that was kind of my main course.

 

[00.16.31]: I also think that it's very, very important for trans women that sex work is decriminalized because a lot of them are, out of desperation, forced to do sex work, not because someone's trafficking them, but just because nobody wants to hire them and no one has helped them financially. It's kind of a desperation sort of work choice. However, I think that it's very inhumane that police and the government want to arrest people for doing it.

 

[00.17.01]: So anyways, I was testifying as the bill as being introduced to decriminalize the bill. I was still at the Human Rights Campaign. I didn't testify on their behalf, but I had their support. I also, in that same year, had worked with the Human Rights Campaign to get them to support a decriminalized stance, decriminalizing the sex work stance. That wasn't necessarily easy. Took a lot of work, a lot of folks working together. I didn't do it by myself, but I did work on it a lot. And then, yeah, I think that was really important. 

 

[00.17.38]:We had, it was actually the second time we had introduced the bill, too. So, the first time we introduced it was, I think, the year prior, and I had worked a lot with David Grosso, who was a representative here in DC, and he was very supportive of decriminalizing it because he was very supportive of protecting trans people. So that's kind of the story of that. 

 

[00.17.58]: Unfortunately, the bill did not pass. And a lot of people who were not from DC came and testified about, connecting it to trafficking and that if we decriminalize sex work that it would increase the amount of trafficking in the city. I strongly disagree with this. I did an interview once on the Kojo Nnamdi Show, on NPR, and I debated a woman about this topic. And one of her arguments as well was also that she thought it would increase trafficking. But if you look at the statistics in New Zealand, where a lot of the decrim bill is based off of, they decriminalized sex work and trafficking did not increase. In fact, the wellness of the sex workers did increase and a lot of violence may have even decreased. So it's just, it's just frustrating that people still think that trafficking and decriminalizing sex work are automatically connected, when I actually think statistically, based on what's happening in Zealand, that's just really not the case. 

 

[Beth 00.19.03]: How would you explain the difference between sex trafficking and sex work?

 

[Laya 00.19.07]: Trafficking is often the coercion of someone to do sex work against their will. That's, in the context of what we're discussing, that's what trafficking is. As far as actually when I say someone is a sex worker, they have chosen to do it themselves. They made a conscious and adult decision that they want to sell sex for money. Between two consenting, of age, 18 adults. So I if you're not 18, and you want to do sex work, I still believe that should not be legal. I think you should at least be 18 and it should be within consenting adults. That would be what a sex worker does.

 

[00.19.48]: And they can work in various places, be it on the street, brothel, online. There are many different kinds of sex workers. I would even say, to some degree, anyone within the adult entertainment, including erotic dancers, could be considered sex workers. There’s also survival sex workers, which I think is a kind of sex worker. Most trans women who struggle finding work or jobs are often survival sex workers. They're doing it just to feed themselves or to grant themselves some place to live. There are some sex workers that are very high end escorts that make tons of money off of sex work or other people who make tons of money off of doing it online. But that's great. I also support them. But really, I advocate for this for the survival sex worker.

 

[Beth 00.20.43]: I read a feminist critique that one could argue that when someone does make the conscious decision to be a sex worker, there are systemic factors that force them to make that decision. So there's not true agency, necessarily.

 

[Laya 00.21.01]: Well, it's a mix. So, it is kind of a very lucrative profession to get into if nothing else has worked out for you. And it's not even for everyone. There are some people that are just maybe not traditionally attractive and they may not even make very much money doing this. But for a lot of people, it is an option. And I think that some people choose to do it because they also just think it's fun, or they also just think it can be lucrative or they just genuinely like  it. And surprise, some people just really like having sex, and they really want to get paid for it. 

 

[00.21.38]: And to be honest, morally, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. And I think that it is, if anything, immoral that we want to criminalize these people or put them in jail. I think that it's also just bizarre because when you think about it, sex is completely legal. It's a normal thing. We do it all the time. Not everyone. I mean, there are asexual people, but a lot of people do it all the time, or at least want to do it all the time. And then, we buy things all the time, and that's legal, you know? So I don't really understand why when you combine the two, it somehow magically becomes illegal.

 

[Beth 00.22.19]: I guess that's where moral judgment comes into play.

 

[Laya 00.22.23]: Right. Of course, there's some moral judgment. There's some fear of, you can't tax it. There's some fear of health issues. There's some fear that you might cause a ruckus in the neighborhood or something. But I think that those fears are so minuscule compared to how many lives you can save if you decriminalize sex work. How many sex workers will feel comfortable around reporting violence. How many sex workers will take their time before entering a car to maybe check their license plate. Maybe they can ask them a little more questions instead of being harassed by police. 

 

[00.23.01]: Not to mention, the more that you incarcerate sex workers, the more likely they're just going to go back to sex work. So they're going to be stuck and have no other options. Some sex workers do sex work for a while, save up money, and then maybe do something else now that they have some money saved. It just doesn't really make sense to me that we continue this cycle of criminalizing sex workers when we could just help the sex workers and help their health, and maybe respect it as a profession. Because a lot of people, honestly, too, use sex workers. Everyone from government employees to construction workers to, I don't know, teachers. All kinds of people. Sometimes even disabled people who maybe can't get a date, really rely on sex workers.

 

[00.23.49]: Sometimes people rely on sex workers for conversation. They want to talk about things that they can't talk to their wives about. Or whatever. There's all kinds of reasons. And the truth is, when you're a sex worker, I would say 80% of the time you're really more of a therapist than you are even a sex worker. And I don't really think that's a bad thing and I think we need to get over morality as a country. And it's just not right that we criminalize people for petty things and things that they shouldn't be in jail for. Yeah,

 

[Beth 00.24.18]: Yeah, exactly. I think that there are misconceptions about how it has to be inherently demeaning. I did have a conversation with a sex worker that talked about how she gets a lot, like you said, a lot of disabled clients. 

 

[Laya 00.24.30]: Yeah. 

 

[Beth 00.24.31]: And it can be really meaningful, the way she helps people. That's how she described it to me. What is the difference between decriminalizing and legalizing sex work?

 

[Laya 00.24.43]: Yeah, so there's different approaches to it. Because to the regular person, they might think they're all the same. There's some different options to it. So, I'll start with legalizing it. So, legalizing it is kind of like what they've done in Las Vegas. So, in Las Vegas, in the actual city itself, I don't think it's legal, but there's regions, little areas just outside the city where they do have brothels and sex work is legal there. So legal means that it's often taxed, regulated and it's very highly controlled.

 

[00.25.21]: Now on the one hand, you might think that's a good thing. But on the other hand, what you don't realize is that the problem with that is that then you have to be hired by these places and you may not literally look like their standard. Then on top of that, you maybe might not pass all their regulations, whatever, some sort of health regulation that they have. On top of that, it just creates a lot of barriers to being allowed to do sex work. Maybe you don't have the right work record, maybe you're an immigrant, maybe you're trans and all your documentations don't add up. There's just a lot of reasons why it can be very restrictive, particularly for the survival sex worker who is homeless and maybe needs quick cash quickly and they don't have time to look nice for a brothel every single night. So legalizing is not really the most ideal. 

 

[00.26.18]: Now, there's another one that's called the Nordic model, where you decriminalize it for the sex workers, but it's still criminalized for the johns. For people who, maybe pick you up and pay for your services. The problem with that is that you're still creating a stigma that sex work is bad, that it's evil, and that it needs to be incarcerated. The problem with that is that you're making the johns still very, very nervous. So they'll still do things that are sometimes against the law because they're already breaking the law to get a sex worker. So they're not going to mind too much if they also stab her, or want to punch her, or do something harmful to her. And then the other problem is it's just that you're creating, it's mostly the stigma and the problem. Then you're having police still harass everyone, so the police still won't just leave the sex workers alone. And they're constantly following them, making them uncomfortable. So it's not really a true answer. 

 

[00.27.19]: What most sex worker advocates advocate for is a full decrim. And a full decrim is what they've done in New Zealand. So that's what we based most of the policy of. Again in New Zealand, it's decriminalized for the johns and it's decriminalized for the sex workers as well. And you don't need papers to get a license or anything like that. You could just do it on your own. And so that's really what I'm advocating for, because if you do that, let's say I'm out on the street and I'm trying to meet a john. If it's fully decrimmed, one, I don't have to worry about the police bothering me. If anything, if I see a police officer, I actually will like it. Because if something bad happens, I can ask him for assistance without worry of being arrested myself. 

 

[Beth 00.28.06]: Mhm. 

 

[Laya 00.28.08]: Let's say, for example, I saw an underage girl and she was being trafficked. Well, if you decriminalize it, I have no fear of the police officer anymore. I can go talk to him and say, hey, I think there's a girl over there that's 16. You should maybe make sure that she's not, you know, check her ID or see if she's okay. Maybe she's being trafficked. And then I won't have the fear that he's going to arrest me in that process. So, I think that decriminalizing it allows for that sort of situation to happen. 

 

[00.28.39]: Additionally, it gives me more time that I can look at a john's car, maybe check the back. I'm not in a rush. There's no reason why an officer might pick me up for some reason. And then lastly, the best thing I think is just that I won't have any arrest records on my record. So I can get another job if I want to, instead of getting constantly thrown in jail every few months, or few weeks, and then I'm just stuck back out on the street anyways.

 

[Beth 00.29.08]: Seems like it all comes down to safety. 

 

[Laya 00.29.11]: Yeah. 

 

[Beth 00.29.08]: That’s the theme in all of that. 

 

[Laya 00.29.14]: Yeah. When I was doing sex work, there was one time where I was stabbed and I wanted to tell police officers something, but I also didn't really know how to explain the story. And I was nervous that if I said I did sex work, that they would arrest me. 

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[Beth 00.29.30]: Yeah. 

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[Laya 00.29.31]: There was another time where I was chased by a pimp and I was really scared, but it's not like I can run after a police car. I don't know, it's just, they just don't make you feel safe. And you're also sometimes worried that you're going to get picked up by an undercover police. And so you might do something crazy. I jumped out of a car once because someone told me that they were an undercover police officer. They probably weren't, but I don't actually know how to tell the difference in that moment, and I didn't want to get arrested, so I just jumped out of the car. So these are just situations that are very dangerous and wild that we create for sex workers that are really unnecessary. 

 

[Beth 00.30.12]: Yeah.  

 

[Laya 00.30.13]: Why do we do this to people? Why can't– I just really don't understand why sex work is so stigmatized. People have sex parties all the time, or they have sex with each other. I don't know, thousands of people probably have sex every night in the city. And just once you add money, it becomes illegal. It's just crazy to me. 

 

[Beth 00.30.32]: I agree. 

 

[Laya 00.30.33]: I mean, I would even argue some things, like hard drugs. Portugal's a country who's decriminalized a lot of hard drugs. I could maybe even see an argument why, maybe, heroin maybe might not, shouldn't be legal, because it can be very, very destructive physically. It's not something most people do on a healthy basis. 

 

[Beth 00.30.52]: Yeah.

 

[Laya 00.30.33]: Whereas, sex, a lot of people do sex all the time. And it’s healthy for you.

 

[Beth 00.30.59]: Yeah. Okay, so moving on to some of your more current work, what is the DC LGBTQ+ Community Center and what is your role there?

 

[Laya 00.31.10]: Yeah. So, I started working in the DC LGBTQ+ Community Center a little more than two years ago. I work the front desk at the community center here and I connect people with resources. So, for example, if they're an asylum seeker, I can connect them with organizations who can help them seek asylum. If they're looking for shelter, or food, I can suggest places. We also have therapy programs here that I can connect them with.

 

[00.31.40]: I've kind of become an LGBTQ  specialist in that I kind of just know every little outlet or thing you might need. Like, if you need hormones, I know where to refer you to. If you need, you have a donation of LGBTQ history books, I know a place to refer you to. Just really random stuff on the daily. So people come in and they also use our computers here. We have free clothes, we have some food, we have art shows, we have a film festival, literary festival, just a lot of resources for different folks. And we have support groups. That's one of our biggest things, we connect people to them. I'm constantly signing people up to our various support groups, which are fantastic, and they're led by volunteers who facilitate the groups. And, yeah, I really like it here. I think it's a great resource for the city. I think every city should have an LGBTQ community center. 

 

[00.32.38]: Some days it's great and very fun. And other days, you know, very stressful. And it's difficult. A lot of people who come to our center sometimes need a lot of mental health needs. Some of them are unhoused, some of them have been through a lot of trauma, particularly a lot of the trans women that come through here. We have some folks who have been kicked out of their homes by their parents. And it's just really stressful to hear some of these stories and just really disheartening. And it can take a lot out of you sometimes to kind of deal with their own trauma. And it kind of brings up some of my own trauma.

 

[00.33.13]: But I think because I've been through so much, I'm very empathetic and I'm very caring and I'm very patient and listen and help people. And again, I want to mention that I'm not the only person who does this work. I work with a team of wonderful people, and we're a small but mighty team. And we get a lot done for how small our group is. But we do a lot of good work here, and I'm very, very proud to work here.

 

[Beth 00.33.37]: Yeah. Well, I think that connects to my next question, which is, what does being an activist mean to you?

 

[Laya 00.33.45]: So being an activist, to me, it kind of means being willing to talk a lot about a topic and being willing to open up about it, become a little bit of of a specialist or professional on the topic, have a lot of knowledge on it, and being able to do some debate with folks and being able to speak on it, on behalf of others. I've done a lot of videos. I've done some speeches. I once talked at Capitol Hill, Human Rights Campaign asked me to speak in front of a bunch of senators and politicians at the Capitol building. Think it was the Obama administration? And it was put in to place to kind of protect trans rights. I've gone to schools and talked about trans experiences, trans rights, and how you can be nice and sensitive to other trans people.

 

[00.34.40]: But also, challenge yourself to constantly learn more. And pick up extensions and intersections that you're maybe not as familiar with. And as we all advocate, I think that it's good that we realize that we all have different perspectives. And what I say isn't the be all, end all. There may be somebody else who has a slightly different perspective or, and we don't all agree on the same things all the time. But I think as a whole, it's good to understand that, somewhere between all LGBTQ advocates, there's a middle that is the truth. Do you know what I mean? Or, is exactly what we kind of all believe. You know, there's some middle in there.

 

[Beth 00.35.20]: Could you share your perspective on Palestine and queer identity?

 

[Laya 00.35.26]: I feel like I feel connected to it as an Indigenous person. I see the Native American experience kind of happening to them, and I think that it's frustrating. And I feel that the Palestinian, particularly the people of Gaza, deserve so much more. And I don't think what Israel is doing to them is really fair. I also understand that Israel was horribly attacked, and some of the people in the leadership of Hamas probably need to be changed or removed or something. I'm not really an advocate for murder, that they're war, so I feel uncomfortable saying they should be destroyed or murdered, but something should change there.

 

[00.36.06]: And I don't know if war is the correct thing to do it, but it's what Israel has chosen to do. Personally, if given the option, I would have probably just released all the prisoners on day one and just gotten all the hostages back. If I was Netanyahu, that's what I would have done. And the prisoners would not have been there longer than a week. Or, the hostages would not have been there longer than a week. Clearly, he has an interest in doing whatever he is trying to do in Gaza, which I personally think is just a genocide. And they kind of want to create new settlers there and just remove all the people from the land, which is horrific.

 

[00.36.40]: It's kind of what happened to my Native American ancestors. I'm sure it's what the Spanish wanted to do to all of us. Remove us from the land, take it, and then build whatever they wanted to build. I mean, if you go deep enough, my Aztec ancestors, the Spanish literally destroyed all the pyramids and built their churches right on top of them. I mean, their churches are literally built on graves. So that's, it kind of looks similar right now. And that's kind of horrifying. And it's really frustrating too, because our government is so supportive of it. And, I don't know, it's such a mess. 

 

[00.37.14]: And I think in relating it to queer experience, I would just say that, it's interesting to think about too, because a lot of folks in Gaza are very hardcore Muslim, and a lot of their rules and regulations are very un-queer friendly. But as a queer person, most of us have also faced high levels of oppression, and we have been ostracized by society. And we're the underdogs. We're constantly fighting just to exist and just to be. And I feel that both Jewish people in Israel feel that, they just want to exist and they just want to be. But I also feel that Palestinians particularly feel that way because they've lost so much of their land. They've had so many people murdered.

 

[00.38.05]: Even when they've done a peaceful protest. Like in 2019, there were  hundreds of people that had their legs shot and couldn't walk or were injured in some way or another, now live with disabilities. And then many of them were even just murdered. So, it's just really frustrating. And it's tough too, because so many people in the United States, you don't want to be construed as anti-Semitic because, you know, I love all my Jewish friends and I love Jewish people so much. But I also realize that Jewish people are not the leadership in Israel, and I feel like a lot of Jewish people have to kind of separate the two. I don't think that when you talk about–when you're frustrated with a Republican person, they don't represent every American. You know? And I think when you talk about the leadership in Israel, I don't have to be talking about all Jewish people. That's not what I'm talking about. 

 

[Beth 00.39.03]: Yeah. 

 

[Laya 00.39.04]: And I think that some people will always connect the two. Some of that is just because that's just what they're taught at birth. That's what Jewish people are taught in school, that Israel is your birthright, it's your connection, where you come from. It's the most important thing. And it doesn’t have to be per se. Jewish people are all over the place. If anything, there's probably more Jewish people in New York.

 

[00.39.23]: I have some Palestinian friends, and it's just really sad when you see graves being desecrated by bulldozers. And just, I learned that Israel will sometimes hold, like, there's a suicide bomber that maybe might go to prison, they'll hold the body to serve a term. They have a morgue in Israel to hold the bodies because they don't want to return them back to their families in Palestine. Just really weird stuff like that that you're just like, that can't be real. And then, it is. 

 

[00.39.58]: Before the war, I didn't know what Nakba was, and now anyone who doesn't know you should look it up. But it's basically, kind of, it's complicated and there's a lot of history to it, but it's how Israel came to be and the idea of Zionism. It just feels like Manifest Destiny. And it just feels very, Native Americans when they fought back, then all the Americans fought back even harder and destroyed us, and they put us in concentration camps, and then we weren't allowed to leave the concentration camps. We weren't– Native Americans weren't even allowed to practice their own religions and their own ceremonies until the 70s. It's just wild to me what happened to us. And I just see it slowly happening to them. 

 

[Beth 00.40.46]: Yeah.Well, thank you for sharing that.

 

[Laya 00.40.47]: Sure. No problem.

 

[Beth 00.40.50]: Could you talk about some specific things you think need to be focused on in terms of queer activism?

 

[Laya 00.40.56]: Yeah, sure. I often tell people that if I was a president tomorrow, President Laya, that– [laughing] that would be funny. I actually– it would be fun to do that.

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[Beth laughs]

 

[Laya 00.41.07]: Anyways, homelessness would be a huge topic for me. And I think that it is an atrocity that this country has homelessness. As much money as we have, and we just fly billions of dollars to foreign countries in various places, and we fund all kinds of ridiculous things. I think that we don't focus enough on just getting people housed. It just seems so basic. Even if, and there's so many apartments that are empty in various cities, we can just put people in them. Recently, DC did fund a new LGBTQ shelter, kind of a transitional housing space, which is fantastic. It's a great start. Let’s make four more of them, you know? It’s not enough. 

 

[00.41.54]: I think that trans women of color particularly, it's very difficult for them to find housing for so many reasons. As a trans woman of color, who luckily has some privilege of having a degree and had some supportive family when I was younger, it hasn't been as tough for me, but it's still been difficult. I was still homeless, even with a degree. I was still having to do sex work sometimes because nobody wanted to hire me. Chipotle didn't hire me. Just random places that I was like, ah, these guys will definitely hire me. Nope. So, just random situations. It's just difficult, and particularly for youth that run away or that are kicked out. As a worker with the DC center, I often have to help people try to find shelter and try to find places that they can go.

 

[Beth 00.42.47]: Yeah. And all these issues are just so connected. And it leads back to what we were talking about with sex work as well.

 

[Laya 00.42.54]: Yeah. I mean, I was doing it so I could pay my rent for a while. And if I couldn't do it, I would have been homeless much sooner, than I eventually had been anyways.

 

[Beth 0043.03]: Yeah.

 

[Laya 00.43.04]: Healthcare, it's connected to income, jobs, and then education, and all these sorts of things. I had a very difficult time when I came out as trans. I told my parents and neither of them were okay with it at first, and my dad had completely disowned me. He didn't want me to come home. My mom, it took her a little bit of time, maybe three or four months. And then she reached back out to me, and she slowly started meeting the real me and having a relationship with me. 

 

[00.43.36]: But my dad, it took him a good five years before he let me come back home for Christmas or wanted to even get to know me. It was tough. Holidays were the toughest, and I couldn't ask for any help. Not that my parents had a lot of money anyways, but a little bit helps when you're going through a tough time. And, yeah, it was just really, really, really difficult, and a lot of people don't have any support from their parents or friends or whatever. Particularly trans people. It's just tough.

 

[Beth 00.44.08]: Yeah. And that's part of why chosen family is such a big part of the queer experience, because so many queer people aren't accepted by their family. 

 

[Laya 00.44.18]: Yeah. 

 

[Beth 00.44.19]: And then we have to create families.

 

[Laya 00.44.21]: Yeah. I've definitely been somebody’s queer moms before.

 

[Beth 00.44.24]: So have I.

 

[Laya 00.44.25]: Yeah, and kind of given them a lot of recommendations. I often feel that way at the DC Center, feel like I'm helping folks. I've also had queer moms. I have a queer dad, for sure. Somebody who helped me a lot when I was a teenager. I love him so much. It without him, I don't, I don't know who I would have been. Yeah. We really look out for our own community, and it's so important because we– as much as I love my birth family, a lot of my queer family have been just as supportive, if not way more supportive. You know? So, yeah.

 

[Beth 00.45.02]: Yeah.

 

[Laya 00.45.03]: My dad has come around in my life, by the way. It took him five years, but he loves me to death now and I love him.

 

[Beth 00.45.08]: Aw. 

 

[Laya 00.45.09]: So much.

 

[Beth 00.45.10]: So is there anything else that you feel like sharing that I haven't asked about, or is just on your mind? 

 

[Laya 00.45.18]: I think that's mostly it. I would just say for queer folks still here hearing this, be safe, be proud, find your queer joy, and fight for whatever you believe in. Make it safer for the younger and next generation. Hopefully, it just keeps getting better and better. 

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[Upbeat jazzy piano]

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[Music gets quieter]

 

[Beth 00.45.47]: Laya hasn't always been this comfortable talking about her identity. She told me that for a while, she just wanted to blend in with society, and not talk about her experiences as a trans woman. This changed when she started volunteering at the DC Trans Coalition, because she realized that if she continued to be an activist, people would be able to Google her, and see that she's a trans woman. So, she made the active decision to go all in and not care anymore. I and so many others are glad she did. 

 

[00.46.22]: During the interview, I commented that a sex worker told me that many of her clients are people with disabilities. I was referring to a woman who lives and works in Amsterdam, where sex work is legal. Sex work and disability is a really complicated topic, and we didn't have the chance to flesh it out at all. So, although there is somewhat limited literature on it, if you want to learn more, I put links to a few scholarly articles in the description of this episode. 

 

[00.46.51]: For the rest of Season 1, new episodes of Rainbow District will come out every Tuesday. Thanks for listening!

 

[Music fades out]
 

[Beth 00.47.01]: If you Google "nonbinary" and "frog" there's discourse online and it's like, why are frogs the nonbinary mascot? Like, why do nonbinary people love frogs? And my friend told me about it and like, I collected frogs as a child, so like, there's truth in that I guess. [laughing]

 

[Laya 00.47.17]: You’re like, I don't know, it just is. Shut up. [laughing]

 

[Beth 00.47.20]: But then like, I guess they're kind of gender…less? But I mean, most animals–I don’t know. We don't need to get into frog discourse right now.

 

[Laya 00.47.27]: Frogs are awesome.

 

[Beth 00.47.28]: But frogs are great. 

​

[Laya 00.47.30]: Yeah. Very cool. 

 

[Beth 00.47.31]: Alright.

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​​[Upbeat jazzy piano with electric guitar]

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[Music gets quieter]

 

[Beth 00.47.35]: If you're a queer activist and want to share your oral history, go to rainbowdistrictpodcast.com and schedule an interview with me. That's also where you can learn more about queer history and find community resources. Alright, bye for now!

 

[Music ends]